Captain Jack: On Green Chip recently, someone asked about slot machine advantage players and why he can't find anyone who is willing to talk about it. I gave a short reply, but I think it warrants further discussion. It goes back to the classic debate of AP Art v. Science. Any robot can count cards, but the ability to get away with it is where the art of the process comes into play. Being a successful card counter requires subterfuge and good casino comportment. Therefore, while many books have been written on how to count cards, blackjack is still offered in casinos and more players ultimately lose attempting to count cards than those who show a profit long term. You can have all the science you want, but if you don't get the art of card counting, you're doomed.
Only play these machines during such times when you have a real, mathematical edge. These machines are excerpted from my book Slots Conquest: How to Beat the Slot Machines! S&H Green Stamps. How it Works: This is probably the most widespread of the advantage slot machines as I write this chapter. As you play, the appearance of a green stamp. I'm beginning to find during my trips to the casino the only time I feel like i'm going to leave a machine a winner is on these Advantage play machines. More Treasure Tokens: Advantage Playing IGT’s Throne of Zinon September 15, 2019; Opinion: Why Are Slot & Table Games APs Treated Differently By The Casinos? July 13, 2019; Advantage Playing Spielo’s Cash Eruption July 8, 2019; Advantage Playing IGT’s “Ocean Magic Grand”: Now With Giant Bubbles July 1, 2019.
If you do, play it. Even at that, don't expect to win, because your odds of hitting the jackpot is no larger than before. Other than advantage play slot machine strategies, there are no other real slot machine strategies. So don't waste your time reading books on money management, betting techniques and slots tips. They won't help. Some casinos offer better returns if the play is taken through the slots instead of cash. If that is the case, it is always better to take free slot play. There are two other ways to maximize returns playing video poker through the players club. Video poker action will trigger mailers from casinos that include free play.
Conversely, there is no art to slot machine play. Step 1 - Press a button. Step 2 - See step 1. If someone were to write the comprehensive guide to beating all beatable slots, then there would be no barrier to entry to becoming a slot machine AP. For the most part, there is no casino heat. Since the EV you are manifesting is created by other players playing at a deeper -EV, the casino doesn't really care. The only negative force in the casino is other AP's. There lies the rub. In the same way you'd never want to educate your opponent (the casino) in blackjack, educating other AP's on machines creates negative expectation.
Fortunately, for slot AP's, there has never been a better time to be alive. Whereas 7-8 yrs ago, slot AP play was probably worth only a couple dollars an hour, now with the abundance of opportunities it is easily a six-figure annual income for those who practice it. The competition is cut-throat. There are a lot of pseudo-gangs which bully lone AP's at casinos and AP's should be wary of their surroundings when coming and going from a casino. If you do find a slots AP willing to teach you, he either doesn't know what he's giving away or he doesn't know that much to begin with. The best way to learn is to teach yourself.
Refinery: That's very sound reasoning. I've been somewhat annoyed by the lack of sharing in this area but your explanation makes a lot of sense. I hadn't been bothered to consider it too much because other than stumbling across something incredibly easy that's a quick win, I'm not sure I'm interested. How long could I realistically sit and push a button?
Vagabond: Not to mention some idiot out there is sharing photos on social media of slot AP’s he encounters in the wild.
Maverick: There were days when members formed their own working groups. One might call them gaming investment groups. I can remember when we met as teams and went off with cell phones until one of us spotted something worth a call. Then we all would meet at the designated casino. I can remember when we traded online information on almost a daily basis. This seems like it would be amenable to such an approach. Like then, members of the working group could be from all over the world -- not just the United States.
Originally published on bj21.com Green Chip, edited for this format.
I want to learn.......
thanks for the article back to grinding Blackjack for a bit
I want to learn.......
thanks for the article back to grinding Blackjack for a bit
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sabreSo it's illegal to set slot machines to pay more than they take in? That's like saying it's illegal to give out money lol.
But seriously don't reply to that because we are seriously getting off topic. Yes you are right that all that matters for slot AP is I the next spin is has positive EV but think about the question that I posted. Is the positive EV coming from the slot game itself or the side game winnings? And yes side games that give free spins is a side game award & not a slot award. Also games that have reel manipulation where your reels can grow in size (buffalo rampage) is a side game & not the standard slot game!!!
You insist on using words that only have meaning to you. You have people that have worked in the industry telling you that 'side game' and 'standard game' aren't terms used in the industry. Your insistence on using them is strange.
Oops - Mission addressed this much more clearly than I could as I was typing this.
Yes, many states have a jurisdictional maximum slot return.
The maximum return in West Virginia for a slot machine is supposed to be 95%, for one example. Keep in mind that various states tax casino revenues, which refers to net win, so it is indeed in a jurisdiction's interest that the casino not give money away.
The positive EV is coming as a fundamental function of the way the game was designed. I still don't know what you mean by, 'Side games.' Some machines have what you might call, 'Side game,' and others do not. I would say that most variable state slot machines that a person would vulture do not have a, 'Side game,' or if they do, that the side game has nothing to do with whether the machine's next spin has a positive expectation.
If you're referring to Progressive Free Games machines, a few of which function on a must-hit basis, then I will say that those are not the only types of variable-state slots that can be played at an advantage. In fact, they'd be in the minority.
Even if you expanded on that to include all progressives of any kind, there would still be slot machines that can be played at an advantage provided you know when to play and when not to play. Of those, the, 'Free Games,' usually has exactly nothing to do with whether or not the game is at an advantage because the Free Games probabilities (and expected returns of Free Games) tend to be a known and fixed commodity.
Thank you for teaching me something new, this doesn't happen often here so id like to give you some serious respect for that ;) Never would have guessed a state would care about a casinos minimum house edge. This only applies to gaming machines correct? Obviously we have table games with much less of a house edge ;)
Now getting back to the question at hand. Please share any slot machine that you believe is AP plausible & I will review that machine till my eyes go blind ;)
What fundamental function are you talking about? Let me rephrase the question, do you know any slot machines which are not AP plausible??? Because if so than what makes the slots that are AP plausible different than the ones that aren't? Is it perhaps because of the extra side games & features that were added on separately to make that game stand out which is causing the game to be AP plausible?
Did you know that the jackpots or bonuses on these machines are not considered part of the slot game???
Legally any mini-game is a separate entity from the main game & you must file for its own gaming application approval & it's own mathematical analysis from a lab!
Can you give some examples of popular games that require a second submission for their bonusses? I have submitted over 100 games and I don't recall ever having to do a second submission for the bonus.
Even if you expanded on that to include all progressives of any kind, there would still be slot machines that can be played at an advantage provided you know when to play and when not to play. Of those, the, 'Free Games,' usually has exactly nothing to do with whether or not the game is at an advantage because the Free Games probabilities (and expected returns of Free Games) tend to be a known and fixed commodity.
Yes but the variable amount of free games given could be making the game AP plausible. If there is an advantage to gain more free games on certain spins and not others than it's not the slot game that is AP plausible but rather the side game which is providing all the fee spins which is making the entire slot machine AP plausible. Does this make sense?
Anyway, I remember this one from eighth grade debate class.
The first thing that you have done is created a term, 'Side game,' which you have not defined. This term does not have any definite meaning as a term such as, 'Return-to-Player,' has meaning. We can agree on return-to-player and if you spoke to the contrary of the term's accepted meaning, then everyone could just tell you that's not what that means.
For what purpose I do not know, but you have picked a term, 'Side game,' which doesn't really have a set standard. You have neglected to define what you mean by the term, 'Side game,' so far, even though there's no generally accepted meaning that I'm aware of in this context.
Having selected the term, 'Side game,' and not having defined it, you can then say that the term describes basically whatever the hell you want it to describe. Kind of the opposite, because people are saying things which you are then saying are described by the term. If you define the term in advance, then a person could challenge that something you have said does not meet your own definition for the term.
Since you have not yet defined it, you can instead disregard anything that you want to as being a, 'Side game,' even if that thing is not a game of its own at all or is simply a function of the main game.
Everything above seems to be in service to your contention that standard slot games cannot be advantage played---which, for whatever reason, seems very important to you.
If, according to the way you would use the words, 'Standard Slot Game,' and, 'Side Game,' renders AP impossible on the, 'Standard Slot Game,' then I concede that you are right and slots AP is not possible. I can't express a contrary opinion when I don't even know what the words you are using are supposed to mean.
Sorry about the choice of terminology, the terms I'm using are in context to game design. A side game is going to be any separate gaming function that is not a direct payout from slot reels would be considered a side game. So for example if you spin and you hit 3 bells and get paid immediately for those bells & nothing else, that you were paid from the slot game. However you spin and you win a chance to hit a jackpot, you are now getting paid from the combination of the slot game and the side game. Even if you spin and win a free spin, you didn't win the free spin from the standard reel symbols so your winnings are still going to be a combination of slot & side game play.
Can you give some examples of popular games that require a second submission for their bonusses? I have submitted over 100 games and I don't recall ever having to do a second submission for the bonus.
Sorry, I used some poor word choices. Let me revise my statement. It's the same application but the side games are stated as separate entities and are evaluated separately on their own merits because often there is no need to review the slot games mechanics since there hasn't been a slot game redesign in over 20 years.
Thank you for teaching me something new, this doesn't happen often here so id like to give you some serious respect for that ;) Never would have guessed a state would care about a casinos minimum house edge. This only applies to gaming machines correct? Obviously we have table games with much less of a house edge ;)
You're welcome. Many states tax both table games and slots at the same percentage, but some states tax them at different percentages. Oddly enough, the State of Pennsylvania is one that taxes slots/video poker revenues at more than 50%, but taxes Table Games at a significantly lower percentage.
Now getting back to the question at hand. Please share any slot machine that you believe is AP plausible & I will review that machine till my eyes go blind ;)
What fundamental function are you talking about? Let me rephrase the question, do you know any slot machines which are not AP plausible??? Because if so than what makes the slots that are AP plausible different than the ones that aren't? Is it perhaps because of the extra side games & features that were added on separately to make that game stand out which is causing the game to be AP plausible?
Ocean Magic and just start with the Wizard of Odds page. That game does have, 'Free Games,' but the component that makes Ocean Magic variable state has absolutely nothing to do with the Free Games. The component is also not a side game...unless you REALLY want to call it one, but it all acts as part of one game.
Yes. Any slot machine that does not have a progressive or a variable-state function of any kind is not AP plausible on its own. Walk into a casino. Look around. Almost all of them. Diamond Hunt, Quick Hits (if no Progressives), Better Off Ed...all kinds of games.
The features are not, 'Added separately,' they're just part of the game. Ocean Magic without the bubbles would never get approved because just the reels + Free Games would not meet minimum return requirements. You'd have to change one of those two things to make the return better, anyway.
Yes but the variable amount of free games given could be making the game AP plausible. If there is an advantage to gain more free games on certain spins and not others than it's not the slot game that is AP plausible but rather the side game which is providing all the fee spins which is making the entire slot machine AP plausible. Does this make sense?
I understand what you are describing and would never think to call that a, 'Side Game.' You would just call that a Progressive Free Games meter.
Interestingly, the slot machine game Three Kings has a progressive Free Games meter, which consists of three different Free Games totals and can NEVER be played at an advantage...even if all three meters are at their max.
Anyway, there are a few games that do what you describe with a couple of recent newish ones that just came out. I wouldn't say there are a ton of any of those, but there are a few. I don't understand why knowing the approximate value of each Free Game and then figuring out what a particular Progressive (or combination) needs to be that would not count as slots advantage play...but if you say it doesn't, then I guess it doesn't.
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You insist on using words that only have meaning to you. You have people that have worked in the industry telling you that 'side game' and 'standard game' aren't terms used in the industry. Your insistence on using them is strange.
Oops - Mission addressed this much more clearly than I could as I was typing this.
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This is were your wrong. Yes those terms may not be used in the casino gaming industry but they should be since they are standard terms that are used in virtually every other gaming industry you can thing. Just because the casino industry isn't hip to the times of new game design doesn't mean they shouldn't be. Seriously the casino industry is stuck in the 1900's we're every other gaming industry (including board games) is up to date with it's time. That's why I entered the casino industry, because it's the 1 industry with the least about of improvements thought the decades ;)Sorry about the choice of terminology, the terms I'm using are in context to game design. A side game is going to be any separate gaming function that is not a direct payout from slot reels would be considered a side game. So for example if you spin and you hit 3 bells and get paid immediately for those bells & nothing else, that you were paid from the slot game. However you spin and you win a chance to hit a jackpot, you are now getting paid from the combination of the slot game and the side game. Even if you spin and win a free spin, you didn't win the free spin from the standard reel symbols so your winnings are still going to be a combination of slot & side game play.